This is the weekly Blog discussion of the students in English 3319, Survey of British Literature II, at Texas Wesleyan University. Spring 2012
Monday, April 2, 2012
Hardy's Poetry
Do you get the same sense of place in Thomas Hardy's poetry (even in the few poems we read) as in his novel The Return of the Native? If so, how does he achieve it, and if not, what does Hardy seem to emphasize in the poetry?
I would just like to mentioned yet again that I am very fond of Hardy's novel, and as we read his poetry, I am kind of fond of that too. He most definitely establishes an idea of place in all of his works. The whole theme that he enforced throughout, the novel-that idea of nature vs. nurture. Simply put, our surroundings affects us, and Hardy recognized that all too clearly, employing it in the few poems that we have read thus far. With the "The Man He Killed," (poem) Hardy right away focuses on the place and the differing circumstances that might occur if the two soldiers, the two enemies, were in another place. For instance, in the first stanza the speaker says: Had he and I but met By some old ancient inn, We should have sat down to wet Right many nipperkin! (1-4) Here, the speaker is basically saying if we were at a different place, we could have been friends; he would have even bought his "enemy" a beer. The speaker continues to says, But ranged as infantry, And staring face to face, I shot at him and he at me, And killed him in his place. (5-8) As we mentioned in class, he is desperately trying to justify his actions, and the place is the key determinant of his decisions. He would not attmept such an act if he was not on the battle field (place). Hardy further continues this theme of the importance of place in his poem entitled "Drummer Hodge" in which Hardy refelcts on a death of a soldier. Hardy with this poem relates to his audience the importance of one's land -one's place of belonging. The Drummer Hodge, who died during battle, is simply barried in a grave that is dug in the middle of nowhere and left there; however, if his death occured in England - his home land, such a circumstance would not have occured. In his home country, his memory would have been honored and his burial proper. Here, the importance of place becomes very significant for Hardy's beliefs. The poem is very real, as the reader slowly understands the significance of place on one's being.
I agree Hardy uses the idea of different places to show that these two people may have been really good friends, had they not been pinned against each other. He shows that the idea of being in a different place is what ultimately causes these two people to want to kill each other. If it had not been for a specific encounter in a war situation, they may have been at a bar somewhere, buying beer for each other like old friends. But unfortunately, fate brought them to this current place which has a direct impact because the place directly determines their current actions.
I think Hardy emphasizes place more in Return of the Native than in his poetry. But that might only be because he had more time to create the atmosphere in his book. However, he does mention place in his poetry and ties it into the main idea. In “Drummer Hodge” he talks about how they threw a dead man “to rest / Uncoffined—just as found” and did not even take the time to give him a proper burial. He also brings in the idea of place by comparing it to Wessex which was in Return of the Native, which seems to be the focal place of all his ideas.
I do agree with that in a way. In The Return of the Native, Hardy has more time to expand upon the place and emphasize its ways more; nonethless, I also think that he does that with his poems.He really takes initiative in place and what it means for the speakers of the poem. With the poems, he makes it short, sticking to form and ultimately achieves his purpose of empahsizing the importance of place and setting. Place and setting affect the ways of humans, and as I mentioned in my post above, it all goes back to his theme of nature vs. nurture. Humans do act according to the enviroment (or the place) in which they are placed, and that is very evident in the few poems of his that we have read and discussed thus far. I really like Hardy's poetry.
The Hardy poems that we were assigned to read did not capture the same sense of place as in The Return of the Native. The differences between poetry and prose probably disallow the integrity but the subjects are more political, the tragedy less tragic, and the setting more open for interpretation. Such is poetry, leaving room for the imagination to take to a select arrangement of words; it is the reader's responsibility captures the essence of the work without assistance from descriptions from the omniscient narrator. However, and only after reading The Return of the Native, there is now a vocabulary of words that can take me back to a setting like Egdon Heath--the word "heath" in itself, and a variety of other similar words alluding to the English countryside. The novel may have biased me in this way, bestowing upon my imagination this vocabulary of rural description that I can only envision or feel what I felt while reading The Return of the Native. In this way, I imagine "In Time of 'The Breaking of Nations'" as taking place on a similar setting that I remember being Egdon Heath, only because I am familiar with this great rural tragedy that I associate with the author. The images that the novel produced for me allows the application of feelings, sights, sounds and pictures to the author's other works; poetry, by necessity, awaits the flooding of this imagination or another. If I had not read The Return of the Native or anything else by Thomas Hardy, I would not have the backdrop to place his poetry against. The experience would not be as rich.
I would just like to mentioned yet again that I am very fond of Hardy's novel, and as we read his poetry, I am kind of fond of that too. He most definitely establishes an idea of place in all of his works. The whole theme that he enforced throughout, the novel-that idea of nature vs. nurture. Simply put, our surroundings affects us, and Hardy recognized that all too clearly, employing it in the few poems that we have read thus far. With the "The Man He Killed," (poem) Hardy right away focuses on the place and the differing circumstances that might occur if the two soldiers, the two enemies, were in another place. For instance, in the first stanza the speaker says:
ReplyDeleteHad he and I but met
By some old ancient inn,
We should have sat down to wet
Right many nipperkin! (1-4)
Here, the speaker is basically saying if we were at a different place, we could have been friends; he would have even bought his "enemy" a beer. The speaker continues to says,
But ranged as infantry,
And staring face to face,
I shot at him and he at me,
And killed him in his place. (5-8)
As we mentioned in class, he is desperately trying to justify his actions, and the place is the key determinant of his decisions. He would not attmept such an act if he was not on the battle field (place). Hardy further continues this theme of the importance of place in his poem entitled "Drummer Hodge" in which Hardy refelcts on a death of a soldier. Hardy with this poem relates to his audience the importance of one's land -one's place of belonging. The Drummer Hodge, who died during battle, is simply barried in a grave that is dug in the middle of nowhere and left there; however, if his death occured in England - his home land, such a circumstance would not have occured. In his home country, his memory would have been honored and his burial proper. Here, the importance of place becomes very significant for Hardy's beliefs. The poem is very real, as the reader slowly understands the significance of place on one's being.
I agree Hardy uses the idea of different places to show that these two people may have been really good friends, had they not been pinned against each other. He shows that the idea of being in a different place is what ultimately causes these two people to want to kill each other. If it had not been for a specific encounter in a war situation, they may have been at a bar somewhere, buying beer for each other like old friends. But unfortunately, fate brought them to this current place which has a direct impact because the place directly determines their current actions.
DeleteI think Hardy emphasizes place more in Return of the Native than in his poetry. But that might only be because he had more time to create the atmosphere in his book. However, he does mention place in his poetry and ties it into the main idea. In “Drummer Hodge” he talks about how they threw a dead man “to rest / Uncoffined—just as found” and did not even take the time to give him a proper burial. He also brings in the idea of place by comparing it to Wessex which was in Return of the Native, which seems to be the focal place of all his ideas.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with that in a way. In The Return of the Native, Hardy has more time to expand upon the place and emphasize its ways more; nonethless, I also think that he does that with his poems.He really takes initiative in place and what it means for the speakers of the poem. With the poems, he makes it short, sticking to form and ultimately achieves his purpose of empahsizing the importance of place and setting. Place and setting affect the ways of humans, and as I mentioned in my post above, it all goes back to his theme of nature vs. nurture. Humans do act according to the enviroment (or the place) in which they are placed, and that is very evident in the few poems of his that we have read and discussed thus far. I really like Hardy's poetry.
ReplyDeleteThe Hardy poems that we were assigned to read did not capture the same sense of place as in The Return of the Native. The differences between poetry and prose probably disallow the integrity but the subjects are more political, the tragedy less tragic, and the setting more open for interpretation. Such is poetry, leaving room for the imagination to take to a select arrangement of words; it is the reader's responsibility captures the essence of the work without assistance from descriptions from the omniscient narrator. However, and only after reading The Return of the Native, there is now a vocabulary of words that can take me back to a setting like Egdon Heath--the word "heath" in itself, and a variety of other similar words alluding to the English countryside. The novel may have biased me in this way, bestowing upon my imagination this vocabulary of rural description that I can only envision or feel what I felt while reading The Return of the Native.
ReplyDeleteIn this way, I imagine "In Time of 'The Breaking of Nations'" as taking place on a similar setting that I remember being Egdon Heath, only because I am familiar with this great rural tragedy that I associate with the author. The images that the novel produced for me allows the application of feelings, sights, sounds and pictures to the author's other works; poetry, by necessity, awaits the flooding of this imagination or another. If I had not read The Return of the Native or anything else by Thomas Hardy, I would not have the backdrop to place his poetry against. The experience would not be as rich.